Legends with JBL (Undertaker's Rivals Review)

In the midst of "Undertaker Week", JBL hosted a Special Edition of his "Legends with JBL" where he has a roundtable discussion with some of the Undertaker's greatest opponents (Stone Cold Steve Austin, Shawn Michaels and Triple H). Everyone including JBL has a strong respect for The Undertaker. All four of them have their share of history with the Deadman.

JBL starts off by calling The Undertaker a Legend that transcends his sport as he compares the Phenom to Muhammad Ali, Michael Jordan, and Wayne Gretzky. I believe that many can make that case for Taker as he deserves to be in the conversation. JBL names Taker's accomplishments along with the Streak before introducing legends from Austin, HBK and Triple H. This is a great panel with men that also have decorated careers and have enough experience with Taker to share a candid discussion.

Longevity:
The Discussion starts when JBL transitions from accomplishments to longevity. Austin, HBK and The Game have all had great careers but did not have the staying power that Taker has. Austin is the first to talk about Undertaker's longevity by going back to their time coming up together in the business. Stone Cold speaks highly of how The Undertaker was able to maintain his character for so many years and how he has been able to carry himself professionally. Shawn Michaels talks about how there were skeptics of Undertaker when he first came in and how they thought that he would burn out quickly. However, Taker proved them wrong.

Transformations:

Triple H mentions how Undertaker was able to transform to keep up with the different eras. This is a testament to how dedicated Taker is to his craft. He has witnessed the Hogan Era, Bret Hart Era, Attitude Era and the time beyond that because he knew how to adapt to a constantly changing landscape.

(Side note: Another Hogan reference. I guess it is fine as long as you don't give him the spotlight.)

Stone Cold brings up how kids were legitimately scared of Undertaker. Shawn talks about how Undertaker's character was thought to be short lived. JBL goes through the different transformations and how those could have been career suicide. However, Taker was able to bring authenticity to the character because of his commitment. The Undertaker is somewhat of an extension of the man behind the character, but with theatrics included. HBK mentions how those transformations can be a credibility killer to anyone else.

Overlooked Gem:

Austin talks about Undertaker's come up in the USWA and WCW and how Vince was able to see what those promoters could not see and that is when "the cash register opened". JBL wonders how promoters like Jim Herd and others could not see Undertaker's value because of his size and presence. He says that those promoters missed 25 years on a money machine.

Shawn Michaels says that some of those same promoters have told everyone else the same thing. He says that Undertaker was able to make the gimmick work because of his quiet and cool nature which is part of what makes the character who he is. Mark himself is very reserved and stoic, so he is able to keep that core when playing the part. Part of what made Undertaker successful is that he was able to hold part of the steering wheel behind the gimmick.

Stone Cold says that Undertaker was able to remain his top spot because he paid his dues along with natural ability.

Ring Presence/Skill:

Now, the panel talks about a huge element of what makes Undertaker stand out: his athleticism. Triple H talks about Undertaker's different cadences in the ring from how smooth he moved in the ring and how he carried himself.

Arrival in WWE/Consistency:

JBL did his homework and talks about how Paul Heyman was trying to get Bruce Pritchard to get Undertaker a job in WWE. Taker had an injured hip but still went on to have a match with Lex Luger at the Great American Bash. That match is what caught Vince McMahon's attention. John says that he did not think that The Undertaker gimmick would have worked in WCW. Nobody knew what to do with him.

Triple H agrees that it would have been hard for the gimmick to work in WCW. The character has to be handled properly, and that is one thing that Vince and Mark have both been able to do for so long.


Loyalty:

JBL brings up the mid-90's timeframe where wrestlers were jumping ship to WCW and how devastating it would have been if Undertaker left.

Stone Cold talks about how scared he was when Bret Hart left for WCW. He says that the good thing in the whole situation is that Undertaker stayed in WWE. Austin said that he was not sure how Taker's career would have gone if he went back.

Shawn talks about how Taker wanted to prove everyone wrong in WCW. He shares a story about how he wanted to go, but Vince said that it would not work creatively.

JBL shares the story about how Kevin Nash tentatively tried to reach out to Undertaker. Everyone talks about Undertaker's loyalty because nobody believed in him in WCW and he was grateful for Vince giving him the shot to become the star that he is now.

Experience with Undertaker:

JBL shares the story about his first match with Undertaker and how Taker went out of his way to make him look better. He talks about how frightened he was by the bright lights of the WWE when he saw Taker's entrance and Shawn's WM 12 entrance. JBL talks about how Taker gave him the nod.

Stone Cold talks about his first match with Undertaker and how he tried to strategize his gameplan for the match. When the lights went out for the Undertaker's entrance, Austin's mind went blank.

Another funny story that JBL shares is that during his first match with Taker, he was giving him stiff punches. Taker yells "Do I owe you money?" and everybody starts to laugh. John thought that he was fired. Shawn says that Taker used that same line and said "Get Shawn back in".

JBL talks about how he picked Rey Mysterio as his opponent for his last match out of respect for Eddie Guerrero. Then, he asked Shawn if he picked Taker as the opponent for his last match. Shawn says no, but was presented the idea of a rematch from Michael Hayes. HBK said that it just felt right. He says that when you are in the ring with someone, you somehow become closer with them.

WrestleMania XXV:

JBL talks about when The Undertaker asked Michael Hayes where his match with Shawn Michaels was on the WrestleMania XXV card. Hayes tells him it was fifth. Taker laces his boots and says, "Let's raise this to another level". Shawn shares the same story. He says that when Taker looks up at Michael and says "Fifth, out of how many?". When he finds out, he tells Shawn they would raise it to a new level. The discussion transitions to the Iconic match of Taker vs. HBK.

JBL moves to Triple H and brings up how tough it had to be for him and Randy Orton to follow the blockbuster match that Taker and Shawn had. Even Triple H himself knew that he was dead in the water. Hunter says that within 15 minutes of the match, Randy walked into the dressing room. He tells Orton, "Dude we are screwed" (He used another word). Trips knew the impending doom of his match with Orton. Austin says "Great Match, Bad Timing".

Triple H says he was torn because he knew he was doomed, but he still had to tell them how great they were.

Greatest Match:

This had to be the lightning rod topic of the show. JBL asks the inevitable question. Was Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels at WrestleMania XXV the Greatest Match of all-time? (A large consensus believes it is, even WWE named it that)

The Panel says that it is a very subjective topic, because you could choose from a variety of matches from Savage vs. Steamboat or Flair vs. Steamboat, etc. They go into what it really means to have the greatest match of all-time because it is hard for 10 people to get together and agree on what is really the greatest match ever. If it was hard for all four of these veterans to decide, imagine how it must be for writers, etc.

Shawn Michaels says that it was good enough just for him and the others on the panel to just be mentioned in the conversation for greatest of all-time.

Stone Cold shares his own story of having to follow an Undertaker match. He brings up how he had to follow Undertaker vs. Mankind at King of the Ring 1998 (Hell In A Cell).

Triple H compares wrestling to music. It is like deciding the greatest song of all-time.

End of An Era:

The discussion transitions to the "End of an Era" Match at WrestleMania XXVIII when Triple H wrestled Undertaker inside of the Cell with Shawn Michaels as the Guest Referee. JBL wants to know if that was their proudest moment with Undertaker. Triple H said yes. Austin chimes in and says how great they told the story of the match and the bond that they shared.

HBK said that it was the most enjoyable moment.


Breaking Character:

The Panel talks about times where they tried to make Undertaker laugh, including a time where they wanted him to do the Spin a Roonie (Taker Roonie) after a Monday Night RAW event. Vince and the fans wanted Taker to break character, but he refused. Even Vince himself could not get him to break, but that shows the respect Taker has for his character and the business.

JBL mentions the different backstage Kliqs in wrestling at the time from "The Kliq" to Bret Hart and his Canadian Kliq to Undertaker's "Bone Street Krew". Austin said that those Kliqs were a shoot and he was never part of one. He tells a story that Undertaker was so tired that he actually slept in the Undertaker casket. People started standing around as Taker got up and never said a word.

Triple H talks about how he saw Undertaker sitting down getting his ribs wrapped up and fighting through the pain. JBL talks about how Taker endured so much punishment and never sold any of it (never complained).

Stone Cold tells the story about how Undertaker knocked him out with a headbutt during their Summerslam '98 match. Austin finds himself on the announce table as Taker gave him the leg drop off the top rope. Steve said that he was not very proud of the match because he did not believe that he performed to the level of his standard or Taker's. JBL brings up how Taker broke his coccyx bone after landing through the table.

Austin talks about how intimidating Undertaker is because of his size. He says that Taker becomes even more intimidating when he is on the top turnbuckle. Steve shares a story in Kuwait where he made Undertaker laugh during the match.

JBL tells a story about when he got drafted to Smackdown he was given lines of jokes to make Taker laugh. He couldn't do it.

Layfield compares Undertaker's respect to Andre The Giant. Triple H says that when he got married to Stephanie, the one guy that he went to for advice was The Undertaker. HBK wanted to find out how Taker felt about the Montreal Screwjob. Shawn and Triple H talk about how Vince gave Taker the facts about the Screwjob, and he understood the business aspect.

Wisdom:

The Panel talks about Undertaker's wisdom and cool demeanor. He calmly analyzes a situation before giving sound advice. Taker was very calm and collected while HBK and Austin were very reactionary. They give Taker respect for putting up with his share of bad opponents (Giant Gonzalez). He NEVER complained.

Backstage Stories (Wrestler's Court/Fight with Kurt Angle):

The Group talks about how Undertaker was always the judge of "Wrestler's Court" and how it was meant to be funny but raised the morale of the locker room.

Taker has the ability to raise the morale and maintain the locker room.

Triple H talks about how Undertaker's ear was bleeding after Austin's knee brace hit him in the ear during their match at Insurrection. He says that at the Airport, Taker actually washed his ear off before a plastic surgeon came to repair the ear. On the plane, Undertaker sees Kurt wrestling Vince, and he chokes Angle out. Kurt was on top of Vince, and Taker made Kurt tap out.


The End of the Streak:

Another hot topic is the End of the Streak. JBL wants to get everyone's opinion on the Streak. Everyone was in total disbelief. Austin said that he had a beer in each hand during the match. When Brock's hand was raised, Steve said that his eyes grew wide just like the fan in the front row with the glasses that everyone makes memes about.

Stone Cold said that The Streak ending was good in helping advance Brock Lesnar, but he believes that it should have never ended. They also talk about how the Streak took on a life of its own. Vince originally did not have a plan for Taker to go undefeated when he won his first match. It just became a snowball effect. Shawn Michaels was the main person that brought that up.

Taker's farewell:

The Discussion ends with JBL trying to figure out the best way for Undertaker to give his farewell. Shawn Michaels and Stone Cold talk about when it was their time to end their careers. Shawn said that he felt more closure from WrestleMania XXVI than he did at WM XIV because he was able to leave on his own terms after his last match with Taker. Shawn was not able to do that in his match with Austin. Stone Cold said that he and a few other people in WWE knew that WM XIX with The Rock would be his last match. Triple H said it best. It is ultimately up to Undertaker to decide how he wants to retire.

Overall, I was highly impressed and very satisfied with this Interview/Discussion. Each of them has shown that they are historians. JBL has clearly done his research while using his own experiences with Taker. Triple H takes great pride in knowing his history, as it is always clear when he sits down for candid interviews like this and the one that he did on Austin's podcast earlier this year. It is also refreshing to see him away from the Authority character on WWE programming.

This is just what I expected from four guys who were each rival of Undertaker at some point in their career. JBL himself always speaks with an expression of gratitude and honor when he talks about The Undertaker. He is a Taker fan for life. Each of them has had their share of wars with The Deadman and carry the battle scars whether they won or lost.

I give this 5 out of 5 Undertaker WWE Championship Belts.

Legends with JBL (Eric Bischoff Interview) Review

Last week, WWE introduced a new Interview show with John Bradshaw Layfield called "Legends with JBL". The first guest that JBL had been none other than Vince McMahon's former archrival Eric Bischoff. When Eric was announced as the guest, I figured that he signed a deal with WWE to have a working relationship that includes a DVD (Maybe even an HOF Induction).

I was looking forward to seeing what Bischoff would talk about, and I was not disappointed. JBL gives Eric a great introduction as he gives him credit in a roundabout way for the creation of Stone Cold Steve Austin, DX, etc because of the opposition that he gave to Vince McMahon. 

Origins:

In part 1, JBL goes into the idea that the Attitude Era and the Monday Night War might have never taken place had Eric Bischoff gotten hired by the WWE. In the Interview, WWE reveals Eric Bischoff's past when he tried out as an announcer/interviewer for the WWF at that time in 1990. They showed clips of Bischoff being instructed by Vince to sell the viewers a broom. 

I remember finding this still image of Bischoff trying out as an announcer on Facebook and led me to think that this moment might have planted the seeds for his competitive nature in the Monday Night Wars. Not to make a big deal about it, but just a coincidence. Eric says that he 'desperately needed the job, but wasn't ready'. Of course, he never got the job and the rest was history. 

Next, they discuss Eric's beginnings. Bischoff talks about how he was a fan of wrestling as a child growing up in Minnesota. He was even on the High School Wrestling Team. I had no idea Eric's history of wrestling went that far. 

He talked about growing up watching the likes of Bruno Sammartino. Eric talks about how he first met Verne Gagne when he was on the amateur wrestling team in high school. Eric's amateur career would come to an end with a knee injury during his Senior year in 1973. Verne would resurface in Eric's life and played an important part of his career when he gave him his start in the AWA. 

Bischoff's amateur days were over, but he still had kickboxing to fall back on. This opened the door for a friendship with Sonny Onoo, the man that Eric hired to be a manager in WCW. 

Like everybody else, Eric mentions how Verne Gagne was behind the times and could not see the future of the business like Vince McMahon. This out of touch mindset is what ruined the AWA. The twilight years of the AWA drew strong similarities to WCW in their dying years. 

Vince McMahon in the 80's "Killing the Business":

Eric Bischoff said that he had no desire of being an Announcer for the AWA. He said that Verne pretty much threw him in that role against his will. Eric said that he had no real desire to do it, but he was a guy that they needed at the time. 

By his own admission, Bischoff says that he was not very good. He says that it was only supposed to be a short-time gig, but he stuck around longer because the guys that they hired were worse than him. Basically, he was the lead voice by default. 

JBL transitions into the perception of Vince in the 80's. Layfield shares his own personal experience about working in Texas and in Europe, and the perception at the time was that Vince was "killing the business". He wonders if Verne felt the same way. Bischoff says that Verne did and so did he, because Eric was so close to Gagne that his opinion meant a lot to him. 

Eric said that he took Verne's word as 'gospel' and he heard many negative things about Vince. However, Eric doesn't feel that way himself after getting to know Vince and working with him. JBL says that Vince wasn't killing THE Business, but he was killing THEIR Business. 

Ted Turner:

JBL goes into the detailed and complex history of Vince buying Crockett promotions, selling it back to him, the failed SuperClash PPV, AWA going out of business and Bischoff going broke to the point where his car was towed from his garage. Given that history, JBL asks Bischoff if he and Ted Turner had the common goal of taking down the "bad guy from New York" and driving him out of business.

Eric says "No, not at all". He claims to not know much about the wheelings and dealings between promotions and Vince's dealings with TBS until the last few years. He said that it never came up except for when Ted asked him how they could compete with Vince McMahon's Monday Night RAW.

Jim Herd:

JBL and Eric briefly go into the subject of Jim Herd. Bischoff briefly talks about Herd's terrible business ideas and lack of creativity, because he lacked experience in the wrestling industry. Jim is a very despised figure in wrestling history. Jim was a regional manager at Pizza Hut that had no clue what he was doing as a booker for WCW. Others including Ric Flair have shared their displeasure of Jim Herd.

Bill Watts:

The Interview transitions from Jim Herd to Bill Watts. After things did not work out with Jim Herd, WCW hired Bill Watts. Things went from one level of awful to a whole new level of terrible. Both Herd and Watts are controversial figures. JBL asked Eric if he liked Bill Watts. Bischoff instantly said, "No, I didn't like him on a personal level".

Eric called Bill Watts a "bully" and did not like the way that he treated people. Both men would mention the fact that Watts was fired after making racist remarks in an interview.

Becoming the Boss:

After Bill Watts was fired, Ted Turner made the decision to promote Eric Bischoff from third string announcer behind Jim Ross and Tony Schiavone to becoming their Boss. Ted said that he wanted to move away from the Southern stigma that WCW carried for years.

Eric said that it was the right place at the right time.

Jim Ross:

JBL mentioned how Jim Ross has told others that Eric fired him, but Bischoff denies the claim. Eric says that he didn't fire JR, because JR wanted to go.

Expanding WCW (Signing Hogan, Savage, etc):

Eric Bischoff discussed his expansion of WCW to compete with WWE. When Eric took over, he cut costs at every corner. WCW was losing money from the time that Turner purchased the company, and Eric's cost cutting helped WCW make a profit. People always like to make the claim that all Eric did was "Use Ted's money". Part of that may be true, but Eric did his part by eliminating things that were costing the company financially.

When it comes to using Ted's money, Eric freely used Turner's checkbook to pull Vince's stars away from him. Bischoff poached names like Hulk Hogan and Randy Savage. During the Interview, JBL said Hulk Hogan's name like it was no big deal. I guess there is a time and there is a place to say it, especially when you are not on live WWE Television. JBL also brings up the Lex Luger signing. Eric was not in favor of bringing Lex back, because of his previous experience with Luger was unpleasant. However, Sting pitched over and over for Eric to sign Luger, and he finally did.

Eric talked about how he brought in those names to change the landscape of the company. JBL brings up how Arn Anderson has said that Eric did not make stars but stole stars. Perfect examples were the aforementioned Hogan and Savage. Eric admits that other than Goldberg and a small number of others, he did not organically create stars. (Yet people seem to only give Vince a hard time about that) Hall and Nash were originally in WCW but returned after becoming stars in the WWF.

The Debut of Nitro:
Eric says the reason why the first episode of Nitro was at the Mall of America was because

Firing Steve Austin:
Bischoff opens up about the firing of Steve Austin. JBL brings up how Austin said on his Podcast that if he were Eric, he would have fired himself as well. Eric said that Steve needed a change, because of his attitude, injuries and the signing of Hogan. I think that we all know the rest of the story.


Other missed talent:
Besides Steve Austin, Triple H and Mick Foley spent time in WCW. Eric says that he felt that Foley was a liability to the company.

Glass Ceiling/Cruiserweights:
The Interview transitions into the topic of the Cruiserweight Division. JBL asks Eric if that was a catch 22 for a guy to be labeled a Cruiserweight then he gets stuck in that spot. Eric said that he implemented the Cruiserweight Division because he wanted to create an alternative from the heavyweights in the Main Event. JBL mentions how the WWF tried with the Light heavyweight Division and admits that they failed miserably. Eric blows his own horn about how he "made" Chris Jericho, Eddie Guerrero, Rey Mysterio and others before they joined WWE.

JBL mentions the "glass ceiling" that everyone knows about with the Cruiserweights. Eric says that he assumes that Jericho, Eddie, and Rey would have made the main event, but he doesn't know when that time would have come. To give my personal take, I think they would have been stuck in the Mid-Card level for the rest of their careers if they stayed in WCW. The writing was on the wall because Eric was too busy catering to the Veterans (Hogan & Friends). Jericho would say the same thing in various interviews as well as in his books.

Monday Night Wars:

JBL brings up the NWO and the War with Vince McMahon & WWF. He says that the NWO and the Austin vs McMahon storylines were the greatest angles ever. Eric mentions that he got the idea from Japan and how he knew that WWF would not get pulled off the air because of the crazy things they were doing at the time. He talks about how that is the way that society was, and the WWF programming was widely accepted.

They talk about bringing in Bret Hart after the Montreal Screwjob. Eric says that he did not need Bret to bring the WWF Title, because he was not permitted to do that (Especially after what happened with Madusa). JBL also asks why Eric decided to wait to bring Bret on Television. Bischoff says that he wanted to have Bret Hart as a centerpiece for WCW Thunder (The B Show). As we all know, things did not end well for Bret in WCW. He was a shell of who he was in WWF.

Rise of Attitude:
On a brighter note, JBL talks about how Vince brought in Mike Tyson for WrestleMania XIV and the rise of the Attitude Era. Eric says that he was not worried, because WCW was still winning the war. Bischoff says that one day he was taking flying lessons. When he got the call that was bringing in Mike Tyson, he knew it would be big.

WrestleMania 13 did the lowest buy rate in Wrestlemania history, and the next year it tripled the amount with over 700,000. That was a sign of things to come as an Austin vs McMahon match headlined RAW to knock Nitro off of the throne for the first time in 2 years. 2 weeks later, DX invades Nitro. JBL asks why there was no response. Bischoff says nobody knew that it was going to happen. Eric did not have a response and admits that WWF was coming after them with everything. Even after the first loss, WCW was still competitive.


WCW Downfall:

Eric says that he knew that WCW was in trouble, because of the merger with AOL/Time Warner. They also go into the idea of Eric challenging Vince McMahon to a fight at WCW Slamboree. McMahon never responded. Other topics include the debacle of Halloween Havoc, as well as the decision to make Kevin Nash the booker. As we know, it would pour the gasoline on the flames of the company. Eric would also admit that he regrets not leaving the company in 1998, at the time when WCW's red flags were starting to rise. JBL mentions how the company went from making $300 million a few years prior to Vince buying it for only a little over $4 million including the video library. That company bled money even before Vince Russo arrived.

In the end, JBL compares Eric Bischoff to Tesla because of how both men were geniuses. Tesla was an innovator, but Thomas Edison took a lot of his ideas and put them on a larger platform. The same could be said for Bischoff. Vince took many of Eric's ideas and put them on a larger stage. JBL brings up the Power Plant, and how WWE now has the Performance Center. WCW put guys in motion pictures and now WWE has a division for films. WCW started the idea of reality angles and WWE has used them since. Eric admits that Vince did things on a greater platform, but he still knows where he stands in history.

The Attitude Era was done in a response to what Bischoff was doing in WCW.

In the end, it was fascinating to see WWE give Eric Bischoff the stage for his own Shoot Interview. It was not that much different from the other Interviews that Eric has done, but JBL came across very knowledgeable. I can tell he did his research going into this. I can tell that WWE is paying attention to the trend of reality based Shoot Interviews that have surfaced on YouTube and other places. This will be a nice, new vehicle for them to use in order to drive content for the Network.



I would give this Interview 3 JBL WWE Titles out of 5.